goWholesale

Jonathan,
I agree with you on many levels.
However, I think that with all those fakes and replicas out there which have
consumed the Ebay market the sellers will suffer including those that dont know
they are selling fakes.

This wont affect me in anyway, however as a person in the wholesale business,
I myself cant see how this will be positive for those that do have authentic AF.

I forsee this being a situation similar to Dooney and Bourke scandal back in 2003.
There were 3 or 4 legitimate suppliers and the rest selling knockoffs.
Even the legit suppliers were shut down and Dooney cancelled their entire wholesale business.
This was spawned by 1 (yes 1 individual seller) using a copywritten Dooney ad in their
Ebay listing. The spokesperson for Dooney that was featured in that advertisment threatened Dooney
with terminating their contract because they were shown / displayed on ebay without their express permission.
This information trickled down from Dooney corporate. I used to work for the company
many years ago in the legal department. I dealt with the legit wholesalers that did online sales and
other types and must say I did feel awful when corporate issued the mandate to terminate
the wholesale market regardless of legitimacy. They forced many stay at home moms and
single parents to loose thier stay at home jobs. Thats about the point that I left the company.
But this isnt about me...

Personally, I wont deal with Ebay if its the last thing I do- but there are those that rely on it.
I have a respect for my colleagues (all other wholesalers). We are all trying to make a living
and have chosen the online market for our own reasons personal and otherwise.
But there are I'm sure at least 1 or 2 honest people on ebay selling AF products that will
get burned by this AF vandetta to rid the marketplace of fakes. I am even certain that in the
process the legit suppliers will get burned and turned off from working in wholesale again.

This business takes a lot of determination and hard work, and I just worry that the wholesale
community will suffer from people especially those dealing in legit merchandise trailing
off into the sunset because of corporate pressures, all fueled by their corporate decision
that only the main company should benefit from the profitability of the products.

I think this goes against everything that retail once represented.
It was once a marketplace of unified sellers helping eachother and
supporting eachother, and even a source of long term friendships between
sellers and buyers. Now it has become nothing more than a blood bath
for who can get the cheapest product and who you can screw in the process.
That mentality I feel is fueled by the corporate pressures of cracking down
on the legit suppliers / dealers.

As always...this is all JUST MY HONEST OPINION

No one has to agree with me, just thought I would
throw in my opinion.

I do remain firm though that the counterfit products put a damper
on the marketplace for the legit ones, but if someone sees a polo for $6.00 buy it now they
should pretty much know its not possible and not authentic. I think buyers know the risk
they are running and that Ebay along with the retail companies are only hurting themselves.

Much like in the Dooney situation, they are shooting themselves in the foot.
They will hurt their "bottom line" and the legit wholesalers they do work with
(and there are a few as with all companies - even if they dont admit it to the
every day inquiry - it's all about connections in the right places)
But my point here is the idea that they will loose a huge source of their income
from the wholesale market. On average every brand can attribute 5-15% of their profitability
to wholesale buyers of their products and relys on them being able to distribute the merchandise.

Wholesale afterall is a basic concept that entails a person who purchases from the
legitimate company / retailer and distributes the goods to other sellers such as those that
maintain retail stores / online stores. A wholesaler is a Jobber / Retail store buyer, a
wholesaler is a person that remarkets the product to locations other than retail "flagship stores"

If they want to go after counterfits, they need to start with China- and we all know
they will never be able to do this. It is a crusade that is seriously misdirected.
This is more of a moral vandetta than them being able to think in the long term
of their stock holders and board of directors each with 6 igure incomes.

People cant afford retail AF, well some can, but many cant.
So wholesalers sell individual products to them at prices they can actually afford.

Again, this is all my opinion. I think the company is huring their profitability
legit wholesalers are going to be burned badly and the company will
only be spending 100s of thousands of dollars on a legal battle series
and have a fruitless outcome because they didnt go after the right "source"
the sellers unknowningly selling fakes are going to be sued, and the legit
wholesalers will be terminated from Ebay because they are selling AF in general.

I hope you all can at least understand my opinions and at the very least respect them.

Again-

I remain your colleague and supporter,
Grace

Hi Grace,

I carry about 30 SKUs of A&F and Hollister along with mostly Federated merchandise and a few job-outs. All my A&F and Hollister items are past-season with defaced tags or labels in accordance with A&F policy.

As you mentioned, I also feel that I may be target as well because I still am contributing to the devaluation of the A&F brand by selling off-price and yes, that has hurt their sales but you are right that they are targeting the wrong people. Those who buy A&F on eBay are not even target consumers because their income is significantly less that those that buy A&F at retail stores.

There is no doubt that a few legit wholesalers and retailers will feel the heat from this operation. The fact is that A&F needs to sell their overstock, but when it hits the eBay or Off-price market they are appalled and start pulling legit auctions. TJMaxx was carrying an A&F SKU last year and have since stopped selling their merchandise (for reasons unknown). Maybe too much heat?

Take Liquid Fashions for example. When I first began selling I purchased a lot of merchandise from her and 99.99% of what she sells is completely legit and always has been. I now work with some of her jobbers. I did once see some suspect A&F Deer Brook/Molly Polos on her site just once, but in the off-price business gray market goods are sometimes unavoidable. I am unsure if she was aware of what she was selling or not. But just one SKU among her hundreds almost cost her million dollar business because A&F is so protective of their intellectual property now. Most of us that has purchased off-price or liquidation product have ended up at one time or another with fakes. Yes, even the big jobbers have some gray market goods.

Now other sellers on this board complete fraudsters and blatantly import fakes like Annie B's, Bailey Direct and Surespeed and the now defunct Trinity Distrubtion and Synertrade (remember those guys?). There is absolutely no way that these people do not know they are selling fakes. I cannot stand businesses that completely push fake goods and prey on innocent 18 and 20-year-old eBay sellers to push their goods. Sites like Jane's Deals who hides like eBay behind the whole "I am just a venue" concept and deny their responsibility and allow fakes like crazy all over the site. Now, there is no way Jane's Deals is as big as eBay and they could easily monitor their site, but the fact is someone needs to push fakes so hiding behind a venue concept limits their liability the same way as it limits eBay. A smarter fraudster is still a fraud. I can say that though she does at least offer at least some legitimate product on her site rather than others that push replica with no remorse.

In a strange way, A&F sort of shot themselves in the foot by making clothes that look worn and destroyed. If I sell past season jeans from A&F with the leather patch removed from the back pocket, it makes the clothes look more vintage and worn which actually makes them look MORE like current A&F. A new and odd conecpt and true flaw in their business model. Does defacing their product really devalue it in the eyes of the consumer? Not as much as it would for a brand like GAP or Banana or J Crew. So, off-price is a better deal for most consumers at this point and will continue to thrive much to the dismay of A&F.

If any FBI agent is reading this, you can PM me for the names and addresses of people ripping others off on this board and blatently selling fake merchandise. I will be more than happy to help you take them down.

I understand you feel that the fake merchandise is so prevalent and harming those that do have the real thing, but by allowing yourself to be bated by the FBI individuals that AF has retained, you are on their same level. I see this as you worrying about your bottom line "sales ability" as well. You know the market wont discontinue even after this crucade.

Hi Grace,

First allow me to say that I am a wholesale apparel liquidator and I feel that I know the business well. Wholesaling/distributing is and entirely different concept than apparel liquidation and apparel jobbing. I really did not understand your comment about me being on the same level as a counterfeiter. That is like saying a whistleblower is on the same level as an embezzler. I fail to see the logic in that statement.

As a business owner and eBay seller it is my duty to not only protect the brands I sell, but also the venue at which I sell on. My sales ability is not what is in question because eBay is more like an 'offering' of goods to the public rather than something that requires great salesmanship. Merchandising, yes. eBayers shop price - it is that simple. They hit the search box and click the price button - if you got the lowest, than you get the sale. You cannot compete by selling real A&F on eBay no matter how good your sales ability. Eliminate the counterfeit goods (or make them 40% less available) than my sales increase will increase because less products are available on eBay and the market is less saturated.

On eBay, fake clothes are destroying the market and giving all apparel sellers a bad name. I know that you do not sell on eBay and understand why. It is frustrating trying to compete and the logistics are nightmarish. I was out to dinner a few weeks ago and I met a friend's boyfriend who asked me what I did for a living. We got into the whole eBay thing and he responds with "Aren't the clothes on eBay fake?" And my quick answer was "yes". I had to fumble back and explain that mine were not fake. At this point, I had lost all credibility with him. That is kind of how eBay is.

With the FAKE USA distributors like the ones I mentioned in the previous post out of the way, it is less likely that other eBayers will be able to import fake goods because of the new trade restrictions on branded apparel. Not many home-based sellers have the capital to buy and import large lots of the same item. So, yes I will work with anyone who can get rid of these people and you should too after all, we are a community!

Of course counterfeiting will not stop, there is huge money in it and an insatiable buyer demand. Maybe this will be like "The War on Drugs". People like drugs, that is why they sell. However, I choose not to be a drug dealer just like I choose not to sell fake items. If a dealer was my street corner pushing drugs to my kids, I would call the cops. In the same way I will bait the cops, FBI or NSA if someone is taking my money, ruining my reputation through association (simply by both being eBay sellers) and trying to systematically destroy what I have built with illegal advance. Those are my 80 hour weeks away from my family, not the counterfeiters - why do I care about them?

What would you do if MAC cosmetics were being bootlegged for .12 a piece? A retailer goes on eBay with a stock photo of the MAC product and ships the fake one. 85% of buyers would not know the difference between your real stuff and the fake stuff from the other guy. Would any retailers be contacting you for supply? Certainly not. Becuase your wholesale price would be much higher. Then what happens? You are out of business.

The sad thing about the USA is people are now afraid to speak up when injustice occurs. It is like in the last few years we have developed a new cultural apathy and overall complacency. Without getting political and delving into social commentary I just think that you as a business owner should not be afraid to speak out against injustice and not be afraid to protect your own assets. I know I'm not.

Jonathan

I think what A F is doing is wonderful many buyers and sellers are being scammed by these low life counterfieters , let me say right now if you are not dealing with a legit wholesaler of surplus material , that is coming directly from large retailer etc not from so called factory overruns that do not exist than you are setting your sell for a huge legal battle where you will not win.

Im tired of the wholle apparel market being saturated with fake !@#$ , it makes it difficult and unpleasant for everyone . consumers are suffering and so are brands.

if you sell this junk get out

Hermes lover wrote:I think what A F is doing is wonderful many buyers and sellers are being scammed by these low life counterfieters , let me say right now if you are not dealing with a legit wholesaler of surplus material , that is coming directly from large retailer etc not from so called factory overruns that do not exist than you are setting your sell for a huge legal battle where you will not win.

Im tired of the wholle apparel market being saturated with fake !@#$ , it makes it difficult and unpleasant for everyone . consumers are suffering and so are brands.

if you sell this junk get out

READ THE DMCA , WRITE YOUR STATE SENATOR, MAKE SURE YOU VOTE.

LISTEN, YOU EBAYERS ARE THE YOUNGER GENERATION AND YOU NEED TO VOICE YOUR COMPLAINTS TO YOUR SENATOR AND CONGRESSMEN. TELL THEM THAT YOU ARE A SMALL BUSINESS AND FINDING IT HARDER AND HARDER TO COMPETE WITH HUGE AMOUNT OF CHINESE FAKES SATURATING THE US MARKET. TELL THEM THAT IT IS TIME THAT THE FAKES BE STOPPED AT THE BORDERS, NOT ON YOUR EBAY AUCTION. WE ARE ALL BEING VICTIMIZED. BUT REALLY, TAKE ACTION BY WRITING YOUR SENATOR ONLINE. I DO IT ALL THE TIME AND I BELIEVE THEY DO LISTEN . THEY NEED YOUR LETTERS.

DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH THE FBI. GET THE SENATOR INVOLVED AND DEMAND STRONGER PROTECTION AT THE BORDERS.

AND DON'T FORGET TO VOTE NEXT TIME